Γραικοὶ καὶ Ἕλληνες (Ἐλισάβετ Κοσμετάτου, Robert Graves)
Από την ηλεκτρονική λίστα "hellas" (hellas@lists.psu.edu) ========================================================= Robert Graves, Ελισάβετ Κοσμετάτου: Subject: Re: Hellas vs Greece Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:01:00 -0800 From: george tsapanosSymfonoumen me to proto ta xalame ligo me to deytero. O yios tou Deykalionos HELLEN-ELLHN hto o eponymos progonos oloklhrou the Ellhnikhs fylhs. Herodotus,i.56, Paysanias vii.18. Episteyeto oti htan vasilikos vohthos yia thn iereia HELLE, h HELLEN, h SELHNH, htoi to feggari, kai kata ton Paysania iii 20,6, h proth fylh na onomasthei HELLENES, hrthe apo thn Thessalia opou h iereia HELLEN elatreyeto. H latreia pros thn HELLE(N) episteyeto oti antikatesthsen thn ton GRAEAE. Ena kalo vivliaraki me arketes "Speculation" einai tou Robert Graves "The Greek Myths". Regards to all ........L. -----Original Message----- From: Thanos Voudouris Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Hellas vs Greece >To parakatw einai sto: >https://www.greece.org/hellas/ellhnas.html > >-----incl msg----- > >Graikos & Ellnvas > >We are appologising, this text is only written in Greeklish at this time. >If someone who reads it volunteers to translate it in pure Greek and >in English, please write us. >Thank you! > >To parakatw keimeno to egrapse h Elizabeth Kosmetatou, se apanthsh twn >pollwn erwthsewn pou exoume se ayto to 9ema. Oi parathrhseis einai >basismenes se phges apo keimena pou brhke sth biblio9hkh: > >Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 > >Graikos kai Ellnvas > >Greece: H le3n autn pronl0e apo to "Graikos". 0a grapsw omws perissotera >gia auto. Arxika avaferotav se orismeves npeirwtikes fyles pou katoikousav >kovta stn Dwdwvn (blepe Aristotelous, Meteorologika, I.14). Argotera egive >syvwvymn tou Ellnva kai avaferetai apo tous parakatw syggrafeis kai >vtokoumevta: Pario Marmaro, Apollodwro (Biblio0nkn, I.7.3), le3iko tou >Souida, Kallimaxo (se apospasma pou avaferei o Strabwv sta Gewgrafika tou, >I.46 kai 5.216), apo to Lykofrova (deuteros aiwvas p.X., Ale3avdreia, 605), >tov Ale3avdro tov Polyistora (teln deuterou-prwtos aiwvas p.X., Aitia, >apospasma 2). Apo tous Ellnves n le3n perase stous Rwmaious kai apo kei >se alles glwsses plnv tns ellnvikns kai tns lativikns. > >Apo tous Byzavtivous syggrafeis, tn le3n avaferouv: o Stefavos Byzavtios pou >eznse stnv Kwvstavtivoupoln tov 6o aiwva m.X. (sygxrovos tou Ioustiviavou). >Avaferei tn le3n "Grakaoi" sto ergo tou "E0vika-Arkadia", 50.6. Tn le3n avaferei >kai to Etymologicum Magnum (le3iko tou 9ou-10ou aiwva m.X.) kai malista leei oti >ypnrxe kai paraf0armevn morfn tns "Raikoi" pou tn xrnsimopoiousav oi "barbaroi". >Na e3ngnsw giati: Stnv arxaiotnta, to gramma "ro" ntav dasy kai oi le3eis pou >arxizav apo "ro" epairvav daseia, pou ypodnlwve bebaia oti proferovtav me eva >apalo "x". P.x. n le3n "Elevn" 0a proferotav "Xelevn" (oxi opws xelwva omws pou >grafotav me "x"), opws peripou snmera proferoume to "Helen" sta agglika. 0a >paratnrnses bebaia oti oles oi ellnvikes le3eis pou pairvouv daseia kai perasav >sta agglika (kai se alles glwsses, alla oxi se oles, p.x. oxi sta italika) >grafovtai me "H". >Epeidn loipov oi legomevoi "barbaroi" mperdeuovtav stnv profora, n akoma epeidn >n proswdiakn profora eixe ndn arxisei va f0ivei kata tous Byzavtivous xrovous, >mplekovtav o kosmos kai egrafav lav0asmeva "Raikoi" me daseia, e3iswvovtas to >"G" me tn daseia. >>H le3n "Grakoi" avaferetai kai apo tov Eusta0io (12os aiwvas m.X.), episkopo >0essalovikns (890.14), ka0ws kai apo to Fwtio (Biblio0nkn, 480.15). > >Na e3ngnsw telos ta my0ologika tns le3ns: Oi fyles twv Graikwv tns Hpeirou >isxyrizovtav oti katagovtav apo tov nrwa Graiko pou ntav, leei, gios tou Dia kai >tns Pavdwras, korns tou Deukaliwva (mnv tnv mperdeuete me tnv Pavdwra tou >Epimn0ea pou ntav koukla ftiagmevn apo tous 0eous). Tnv plnroforia autn tnv >pairvoume apo tov Hsiodo, Katalogoi (?), apospasma 24 kai tnv exei ypopsn tou >kai o Aristotelns (Meteorologika, I.14). Symfwva me alles pnges (Lydos, De mens. >I. 13, p. 7.22 W kai Stefavos Byzavtios), Graikos ntav eva apo ta ovomata tou >Ellnva, tou giou tou Deukaliwva kai patriarxn twv Ellnvwv. > >Twra n le3n "Ellas" (Hellas). Pame sta etymologika tns: n le3n proerxetai mallov >apo to "selas" (fws), opws leei o Curtius (Gr. Etym.) kai opws symfwvouve mallov >oloi oi filologoi basismevoi stous paramatw syggrafeis: > > Euripidn (Hraklns Maivomevos, 1), > Hrodoto (8.23), > Strabwva (10.445f), > Stefavo Byzavtio, Polybio (11.7.4), > Hsyxio Milnsio (opou dev divw parapompes, auto snmaivei oti prokeitai gia > lnmmata le3ikwv). > >Kai pali n le3n faivetai va syvdeetai me tnv perioxn tns Dwdwvns stnv Hpeiro >(Sxolia stnv omnrikn Iliada, 21.194, Aristotelns, Meteorologika. I.14.352a). To >apospasma tou Aristoteln leei kata le3n oti: > >"O kaloumevos epi Deukaliwvos kataklysmos egeveto peri Ellada tnv arxaiav' >autn d' estiv n peri Dwdwvnv. Wkouv gar oi Selloi evtau0a kai oi kaloumevoi >tote mev Graikoi, vyv de Ellnves". > >Nomizw oti dev xreiazeste metafrasn, eukolo eivai. Faivetai loipov oti oi Graikoi >ovomazovtav kai Selloi kai telika edwsav to ovoma tous sto my0ologiko nrwa, gio >tou Deukaliwva, tov Ellnva n Graiko. Stnv arxaiotnta oi Ellnves protimousav to >"Ellnves". Oi Lativoi gia kapoio logo protimnsav to "Graikos". Telika perase to >"Graikos" stis 3eves glwsses kai gia auto to logo exoume Greece, Grece, >Griechenland, Griekenland, Grecia, ktl. Ws gvwstov, oi "filoi" kai geitoves >(Tourkoi) protimouv to Yunanistan kai Yunan, ta opoia fysika proerxovtai apo to >Iwvia kai Iwv. > >Liza > >Return to Hellas >-----end included msg----- > >_______________________________________________________________________ >__|__~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanos (geitonika Leykou Oikou) > | ~~~~~~~~~~~ thanos@GRinet.com - https://www.grinet.com >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2085 meres mexri tis 13-Aug-2004 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELLAS_Web https://www.greece.org/hellas
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