Γραικοὶ καὶ Ἕλληνες (Ἐλισάβετ Κοσμετάτου, Robert Graves)
Από την ηλεκτρονική λίστα "hellas" (hellas@lists.psu.edu)
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Robert Graves, Ελισάβετ Κοσμετάτου:
Subject: Re: Hellas vs Greece
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:01:00 -0800
From: george tsapanos
Symfonoumen me to proto ta xalame ligo me to deytero.
O yios tou Deykalionos HELLEN-ELLHN hto o eponymos progonos oloklhrou
the Ellhnikhs fylhs. Herodotus,i.56, Paysanias vii.18.
Episteyeto oti htan vasilikos vohthos yia thn iereia HELLE, h HELLEN, h
SELHNH, htoi to feggari, kai kata ton Paysania iii 20,6, h proth fylh
na onomasthei HELLENES, hrthe apo thn Thessalia opou h iereia HELLEN
elatreyeto.
H latreia pros thn HELLE(N) episteyeto oti antikatesthsen thn ton
GRAEAE.
Ena kalo vivliaraki me arketes "Speculation" einai tou Robert Graves
"The Greek Myths".
Regards to all ........L.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thanos Voudouris
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Hellas vs Greece
>To parakatw einai sto:
>http://www.greece.org/hellas/ellhnas.html
>
>-----incl msg-----
>
>Graikos & Ellnvas
>
>We are appologising, this text is only written in Greeklish at this time.
>If someone who reads it volunteers to translate it in pure Greek and
>in English, please write us.
>Thank you!
>
>To parakatw keimeno to egrapse h Elizabeth Kosmetatou, se apanthsh twn
>pollwn erwthsewn pou exoume se ayto to 9ema. Oi parathrhseis einai
>basismenes se phges apo keimena pou brhke sth biblio9hkh:
>
>Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998
>
>Graikos kai Ellnvas
>
>Greece: H le3n autn pronl0e apo to "Graikos". 0a grapsw omws perissotera
>gia auto. Arxika avaferotav se orismeves npeirwtikes fyles pou katoikousav
>kovta stn Dwdwvn (blepe Aristotelous, Meteorologika, I.14). Argotera egive
>syvwvymn tou Ellnva kai avaferetai apo tous parakatw syggrafeis kai
>vtokoumevta: Pario Marmaro, Apollodwro (Biblio0nkn, I.7.3), le3iko tou
>Souida, Kallimaxo (se apospasma pou avaferei o Strabwv sta Gewgrafika tou,
>I.46 kai 5.216), apo to Lykofrova (deuteros aiwvas p.X., Ale3avdreia, 605),
>tov Ale3avdro tov Polyistora (teln deuterou-prwtos aiwvas p.X., Aitia,
>apospasma 2). Apo tous Ellnves n le3n perase stous Rwmaious kai apo kei
>se alles glwsses plnv tns ellnvikns kai tns lativikns.
>
>Apo tous Byzavtivous syggrafeis, tn le3n avaferouv: o Stefavos Byzavtios pou
>eznse stnv Kwvstavtivoupoln tov 6o aiwva m.X. (sygxrovos tou Ioustiviavou).
>Avaferei tn le3n "Grakaoi" sto ergo tou "E0vika-Arkadia", 50.6. Tn le3n avaferei
>kai to Etymologicum Magnum (le3iko tou 9ou-10ou aiwva m.X.) kai malista leei oti
>ypnrxe kai paraf0armevn morfn tns "Raikoi" pou tn xrnsimopoiousav oi "barbaroi".
>Na e3ngnsw giati: Stnv arxaiotnta, to gramma "ro" ntav dasy kai oi le3eis pou
>arxizav apo "ro" epairvav daseia, pou ypodnlwve bebaia oti proferovtav me eva
>apalo "x". P.x. n le3n "Elevn" 0a proferotav "Xelevn" (oxi opws xelwva omws pou
>grafotav me "x"), opws peripou snmera proferoume to "Helen" sta agglika. 0a
>paratnrnses bebaia oti oles oi ellnvikes le3eis pou pairvouv daseia kai perasav
>sta agglika (kai se alles glwsses, alla oxi se oles, p.x. oxi sta italika)
>grafovtai me "H".
>Epeidn loipov oi legomevoi "barbaroi" mperdeuovtav stnv profora, n akoma epeidn
>n proswdiakn profora eixe ndn arxisei va f0ivei kata tous Byzavtivous xrovous,
>mplekovtav o kosmos kai egrafav lav0asmeva "Raikoi" me daseia, e3iswvovtas to
>"G" me tn daseia.
>>H le3n "Grakoi" avaferetai kai apo tov Eusta0io (12os aiwvas m.X.), episkopo
>0essalovikns (890.14), ka0ws kai apo to Fwtio (Biblio0nkn, 480.15).
>
>Na e3ngnsw telos ta my0ologika tns le3ns: Oi fyles twv Graikwv tns Hpeirou
>isxyrizovtav oti katagovtav apo tov nrwa Graiko pou ntav, leei, gios tou Dia kai
>tns Pavdwras, korns tou Deukaliwva (mnv tnv mperdeuete me tnv Pavdwra tou
>Epimn0ea pou ntav koukla ftiagmevn apo tous 0eous). Tnv plnroforia autn tnv
>pairvoume apo tov Hsiodo, Katalogoi (?), apospasma 24 kai tnv exei ypopsn tou
>kai o Aristotelns (Meteorologika, I.14). Symfwva me alles pnges (Lydos, De mens.
>I. 13, p. 7.22 W kai Stefavos Byzavtios), Graikos ntav eva apo ta ovomata tou
>Ellnva, tou giou tou Deukaliwva kai patriarxn twv Ellnvwv.
>
>Twra n le3n "Ellas" (Hellas). Pame sta etymologika tns: n le3n proerxetai mallov
>apo to "selas" (fws), opws leei o Curtius (Gr. Etym.) kai opws symfwvouve mallov
>oloi oi filologoi basismevoi stous paramatw syggrafeis:
>
> Euripidn (Hraklns Maivomevos, 1),
> Hrodoto (8.23),
> Strabwva (10.445f),
> Stefavo Byzavtio, Polybio (11.7.4),
> Hsyxio Milnsio (opou dev divw parapompes, auto snmaivei oti prokeitai gia
> lnmmata le3ikwv).
>
>Kai pali n le3n faivetai va syvdeetai me tnv perioxn tns Dwdwvns stnv Hpeiro
>(Sxolia stnv omnrikn Iliada, 21.194, Aristotelns, Meteorologika. I.14.352a). To
>apospasma tou Aristoteln leei kata le3n oti:
>
>"O kaloumevos epi Deukaliwvos kataklysmos egeveto peri Ellada tnv arxaiav'
>autn d' estiv n peri Dwdwvnv. Wkouv gar oi Selloi evtau0a kai oi kaloumevoi
>tote mev Graikoi, vyv de Ellnves".
>
>Nomizw oti dev xreiazeste metafrasn, eukolo eivai. Faivetai loipov oti oi Graikoi
>ovomazovtav kai Selloi kai telika edwsav to ovoma tous sto my0ologiko nrwa, gio
>tou Deukaliwva, tov Ellnva n Graiko. Stnv arxaiotnta oi Ellnves protimousav to
>"Ellnves". Oi Lativoi gia kapoio logo protimnsav to "Graikos". Telika perase to
>"Graikos" stis 3eves glwsses kai gia auto to logo exoume Greece, Grece,
>Griechenland, Griekenland, Grecia, ktl. Ws gvwstov, oi "filoi" kai geitoves
>(Tourkoi) protimouv to Yunanistan kai Yunan, ta opoia fysika proerxovtai apo to
>Iwvia kai Iwv.
>
>Liza
>
>Return to Hellas
>-----end included msg-----
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>__|__~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanos (geitonika Leykou Oikou)
> | ~~~~~~~~~~~ thanos@GRinet.com - http://www.grinet.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2085 meres mexri tis 13-Aug-2004
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELLAS_Web http://www.greece.org/hellas
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